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Old 12-08-2016, 10:16 AM   #731
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Default Re: The Chronicles of Weazy

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If you want to play a balanced format play standard.

You can't make 8 different formats varying by number of sets and hope each catches on.
I understand that perspective. Has there been a history of folks trying to create 'new' formats like Frontier in the past?

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I think wotc needs to ban all the bullshit or none of it unless it enables turn 1 and 2s.

To that end, I don't know why simian spirit guide is around when chrome mox isn't.

Infect is definitely bullshit, but some dude getting you on his 5-10% turn 1-2 combo deck that can't win against one disruption spell and a clock is not a sign of a problem.

It's also possible that they just cut out 8th and 9th edition to phase out the cards that lead to people's biggest complaints, like bridge and blood moon and to a much lesser extent, choke. Probably ban chalice of the void and hurt infect somehow after that. Then I think most complaints about "bullshit draws and games" will end.

I don't agree with taking those steps, but that's still better than an entirely new format.
I'm with you in that I don't really want Modern messed with too much. But I do like having the option of a new format just because I like the challenge of deck building and playing a format that has a little different set of rules. I'm not advocating one format over the other....I'm more in the 'why not both' camp.

Who knows, maybe the idea turns out to be pretty sweet as new sets get added to it. Or maybe it dies on the vine. Either way, the option being there was interesting to me, at least.
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Old 12-08-2016, 11:25 AM   #732
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Default Re: The Chronicles of Weazy

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I understand that perspective. Has there been a history of folks trying to create 'new' formats like Frontier in the past?
Have you heard of Extended? Have you heard of Commander? Have you heard of Modern?

All of these are made up formats that basically came into existence because of players making up / proposing formats outside of Type 1 (Vintage), Type 1.5 (Legacy) and Type 2 (Standard)
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Old 12-08-2016, 12:54 PM   #733
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Default Re: The Chronicles of Weazy

The only ones that ever last either allow the best cards of all time or are on a rotation schedule

Food for thought
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Old 12-08-2016, 01:01 PM   #734
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Default Re: The Chronicles of Weazy

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I'm not advocating one format over the other....I'm more in the 'why not both' camp.
Bandwidth. You have to have a critical mass of players or any format is effectively solitaire, and every splinter weakens existing formats.
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Old 12-08-2016, 01:38 PM   #735
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Default Re: The Chronicles of Weazy

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Originally Posted by JonasDash View Post
Have you heard of Extended? Have you heard of Commander? Have you heard of Modern?

All of these are made up formats that basically came into existence because of players making up / proposing formats outside of Type 1 (Vintage), Type 1.5 (Legacy) and Type 2 (Standard)
I knew Modern and Commander were 'fan made'....wasn't Extended kind of a precursor to Modern? I'm not totally up to speed on the development of the various formats that existed before I started playing in Innistrad block a little while back.....

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The only ones that ever last either allow the best cards of all time or are on a rotation schedule

Where does that put Modern...I'm guessing that you're not really a fan?

Food for thought
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Bandwidth. You have to have a critical mass of players or any format is effectively solitaire, and every splinter weakens existing formats.
I can see that. What about the fact that Wizards doesn't really support Legacy / Vintage and there's been a drop in player attendance for Legacy tournaments....would it be bad for Legacy to be weakened? I know a LOT of people love playing both Vintage and Legacy formats. I'm one of those people. But since they aren't the cash cow Standard is, there's not a lot of love for them from the mother ship. Both formats have a very expensive barrier to entry and I could see how people newer to the game would be in favor of supporting something they can easily access, like Modern, Standard and this newly suggested Frontier format.

On the topic of bandwidth, do you think there has been or will be a shift in the critical mass of players that support the 'newer' formats instead of formats they have been priced out of? I could see that large influx of players that MTG attracted over the past 5 or so years tipping the scales in favor of Wizards adopting and supporting newer formats that are easier to access.....
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Old 12-08-2016, 01:50 PM   #736
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Default Re: The Chronicles of Weazy

What do I think about modern?

I think that the fact that we are even having this discussion of making a new format for purely financial reasons is because it doesn't rotate, and as such wotc dropped the ball.

About actually playing it?

I love lantern, if that answers the question. From the impressive rate of bitching and the cards and strategies being bitched about, it sounds like most people hate turn 4 decks and strategies that demolish entire archetypes though.
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Old 12-08-2016, 02:43 PM   #737
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Default Re: The Chronicles of Weazy

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Originally Posted by Weazy View Post
would it be bad for Legacy to be weakened? I know a LOT of people love playing both Vintage and Legacy formats. I'm one of those people. But since they aren't the cash cow Standard is, there's not a lot of love for them from the mother ship. Both formats have a very expensive barrier to entry and I could see how people newer to the game would be in favor of supporting something they can easily access, like Modern, Standard and this newly suggested Frontier format.
Wizards is incentivized to keep Eternal formats around, because the idea that your cards will hold/appreciate in value indefinitely (although a myth for ~99% of all cards printed) is one factor in driving card sales. Commander has replaced that to a large extent, which is great or WoTC, but I'm guessing they would be reluctant to take steps to entirely cut out the Eternal formats. It would be bad for business if the power 9 lost value to any significant extent, for example, even though WoTC hasn't profited from any P9 transaction in decades.

This doesn't mean they materially support those formats - they've walked a thin line between killing Legacy and supporting it for awhile now, and basically ignore Vintage altogether.

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On the topic of bandwidth, do you think there has been or will be a shift in the critical mass of players that support the 'newer' formats instead of formats they have been priced out of? I could see that large influx of players that MTG attracted over the past 5 or so years tipping the scales in favor of Wizards adopting and supporting newer formats that are easier to access.....
I'm just not sure there's room for more than Standard and Modern and Limited in the rotation of competitive Magic. Very few markets have enough players to fill more than those 3 slots. Also, adding a 3rd competitive (i.e., PPTQ) constructed format would really put a strain on the ability of a lot of players to participate fully. A lot of people don't keep full collections - they use cards they aren't playing in decks to finance new decks, so it's not like they're keeping all of their recently-rotated Standard stuff sitting around waiting to be used in Frontier. There's also the challenge of knowing that many formats, but you can always rely on online decklists.

I could be wrong about all of this - maybe stores in Houston could collectively fire Standard, Frontier, Modern and Draft tournaments on a Friday night. WoTC has market research that would better inform them to make conclusions.
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Old 12-08-2016, 03:13 PM   #738
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Default Re: The Chronicles of Weazy

Side note- we all agree that the infect ban is become immmense, right?

If there is one anyway. It's definitely not warranted for powe level reasons. But wotc has moved to a more customer service based model where they listen to outcries instead of testing and seeing what's actually going on.
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Old 12-08-2016, 04:18 PM   #739
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Default Re: The Chronicles of Weazy

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Originally Posted by skeletalpeacock View Post
What do I think about modern?

I think that the fact that we are even having this discussion of making a new format for purely financial reasons is because it doesn't rotate, and as such wotc dropped the ball.

About actually playing it?

I love lantern, if that answers the question. From the impressive rate of bitching and the cards and strategies being bitched about, it sounds like most people hate turn 4 decks and strategies that demolish entire archetypes though.
I like playing Modern as well. I agree that people like playing interactive games and T4 or earlier kill / lock might not appeal to players that are used to longer and more interactive games like you get in standard...

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Originally Posted by lazarusl View Post
Wizards is incentivized to keep Eternal formats around, because the idea that your cards will hold/appreciate in value indefinitely (although a myth for ~99% of all cards printed) is one factor in driving card sales. Commander has replaced that to a large extent, which is great or WoTC, but I'm guessing they would be reluctant to take steps to entirely cut out the Eternal formats. It would be bad for business if the power 9 lost value to any significant extent, for example, even though WoTC hasn't profited from any P9 transaction in decades.

This doesn't mean they materially support those formats - they've walked a thin line between killing Legacy and supporting it for awhile now, and basically ignore Vintage altogether.

I'm just not sure there's room for more than Standard and Modern and Limited in the rotation of competitive Magic. Very few markets have enough players to fill more than those 3 slots. Also, adding a 3rd competitive (i.e., PPTQ) constructed format would really put a strain on the ability of a lot of players to participate fully. A lot of people don't keep full collections - they use cards they aren't playing in decks to finance new decks, so it's not like they're keeping all of their recently-rotated Standard stuff sitting around waiting to be used in Frontier. There's also the challenge of knowing that many formats, but you can always rely on online decklists.

I could be wrong about all of this - maybe stores in Houston could collectively fire Standard, Frontier, Modern and Draft tournaments on a Friday night. WoTC has market research that would better inform them to make conclusions.
Totally agree on the 'trading card' aspect creating a draw to the game. I feel that's a minor undertone, really, and that MTG at it's core it's about strategy and interaction with other people who enjoy the game as well. I can understand, too, that Wizards has walked that line of trying to keep the eternal players somewhat satiated while pouring a lot of energy into standard and some of their other sealed products that are the real revenue machines.

Totally agree on there being not more than 3 formats that most given markets could support....I personally prefer to play it all because I think they're all awesome in their own respect. And as for the challenge of keeping up with multiple formats, I feel that's a pretty awesome aspect of the game but I think you mean that it's a slippery slope.....you start adding more than those 3 formats any given market could support and it can overwhelming to try to keep up with that much.

FWIW I'm not sure if larger markets like Houston could support multiple formats when people start adding in new ones....I'd have to lean on other folks that frequent the forum that play in store that regularly fire constructed and limited events during the week. I'm on the North side where it's usually the FNM / Casual crowd for the most part.


Quote:
Originally Posted by skeletalpeacock View Post
Side note- we all agree that the infect ban is become immmense, right?

If there is one anyway. It's definitely not warranted for powe level reasons. But wotc has moved to a more customer service based model where they listen to outcries instead of testing and seeing what's actually going on.
Immense is def part of the equation. I just think Wizards fucked up by essentially cutting the life total in half when they created poison as an attribute of the game play. But that's just me.

I'm curious to watch how WoTC handles feedback from the community on the topic of Frontier. Should be interesting....
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Old 12-08-2016, 04:27 PM   #740
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Default Re: The Chronicles of Weazy

Considering the WMCQ promo is Inkmoth Nexus, I doubt they would hobble Infect too bigly
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