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Old 06-11-2016, 05:38 PM   #101
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Default Re: Berni for President

not completely sure what your point is, as per the usual.

but yes, if someone thinks snowden committed treason, then its justified to think that clinton may be committing treason by negligence, depending on the outcome of the investigation

if you think snowden is a national hero, then clinton committed illegal shortcuts for the sake of convenience or whatever other personal reasons she claims

i personally dont have a strong opinion on snowden either way. my point was that there exist people who praise snowden while insisting clinton should be thrown in jail, which to me seems like cognitive dissonance
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Old 06-11-2016, 06:00 PM   #102
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Default Re: Berni for President

I thought I was pretty clear with the "whistleblowing is not negligence" thing, but:

You're implying that Snowden gets support because he breached national security, and because Hillary might have breached national security too, she should get the same support that Snowden gets, by transitive.

Snowden obviously doesn't get called a hero because he endangered national security, nor do any of the reasons that he gets support exist in the case of Hillary Clinton. You then imply that his "reddit supporters" are hypocrites, which is both incredibly ignorant and insulting.

I made a couple of false analogy arguments in a fashion to "prove" that Hillary committed treason. Somehow you accept my argument as true, and now it happens to pass that this was your entire point in the first place. Cognitive dissonance, my ass.

I'm not sure how to make it any clearer. I could draw you a picture if you're still confused.
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Old 06-11-2016, 06:28 PM   #103
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Default Re: Berni for President

And for the record, the issue with the e-mail server is not whether there was any sensitive information on them, but an argument about her character.

No one believes that she somehow did this on purpose to destroy America - she was just negligent and ignorant of standard protocol. Protocols and safeguards exist for good reason, national security or otherwise, and you can be damn sure that there will be a hell of a lot more of them at the Presidential level.

The argument that she might do this again with some other rules and regulations and that this could potential damage the Presidency or the country is not something I am willing to dismiss that frivolously.

Moreover, she just handles the situation so fucking poorly it makes me sick. Just own up to the fact that you may have done something wrong - the fact that no sensitive information was leaked is irrelevant to the fact that you breached protocol for no reason other than your personal convenience.
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Old 06-11-2016, 06:28 PM   #104
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Default Re: Berni for President

Look it is clear you hate women
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Old 06-11-2016, 06:29 PM   #105
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Default Re: Berni for President

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Look it is clear you hate women
Close. I hate idiots.
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Old 06-11-2016, 06:30 PM   #106
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Default Re: Berni for President

I was just saving analynn time. It's one of her goto lines
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Old 06-11-2016, 06:54 PM   #107
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Default Re: Berni for President

i think its possible to think snowden did the right thing and still acknowledge that he broke the law and should be punished accordingly. just like you can think that the hillary thing is not a super big deal (i never implied that she should get the same support as snowden) while acknowledging that she may have broken the law.

i agree that it was handled poorly. but if this was done by people before her, there's no reason to think she shouldn't have done the same. once she got in trouble though, she should have owned it.
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Old 06-11-2016, 08:01 PM   #108
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Default Re: Berni for President

Snowden isn't like Hillary because one person was being a lazy dipshit which lead to exposing information and another was trying to being to light a mass surveillance conspiracy

That's not really comparable at all when it comes to intent. When it comes to penalty, I still don't know because I haven't bothered to look up the complicated whistleblower laws

Assuming he didn't follow protocol on the whistleblowing ( is there even such a thing at that level of secrecy?) then yes charges of treason for both

Is he actually a traitorous person? This is a gauge of intent, not the law. One person wanted to bring to light shady shit and another didn't want to do things right. Apples and oranges doesn't quite cover it. Apples and fucking toxoplasma gondii.
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Old 06-11-2016, 08:09 PM   #109
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Default Re: Berni for President

there is protocol. snowden didn't follow it. from what ive read, theres no whistle blower protection for taking classified docs and leaking it to the press.

the analogy is you either followed the law or you didnt. again my issue isnt with these things individually. its the people who think hillary should be punished for breaking the law and snowden shouldn't. i personally dont give a shit about either of these issues.
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Old 06-11-2016, 08:43 PM   #110
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Default Re: Berni for President

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Originally Posted by skeletalpeacock View Post
Assuming he didn't follow protocol on the whistleblowing ( is there even such a thing at that level of secrecy?)
There are official avenues of complaint within the NSA, but using those channels gets you flagged by the NSA without any guarantee of consideration for your complaints, especially from the American public. Odds are good you would get arrested and see significant jail time.

Google Thomas Drake or Binney.

If you've watched any of Snowden's interviews, he gives a pretty good breakdown of why he did things the way he did, and the steps that he (and the Guardian) has taken to redact items he thought would be too revealing - i.e. actual infrastructure, personnel, or time frames. His behavior is pretty consistent with his given motives.
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