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Old 11-22-2016, 11:40 AM   #1331
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Default Re: Berni for President

I can't stand how this election has been and still is about moral outrage. Democrats are so focused on how everyone he is appointing is supposedly a racist and Nazis support him, but the fact that he is appointing global warming deniers and will end net neutrality, that's just boring politics stuff that nobody cares about, did you hear what Trump had to say about Hamilton?

And lets cool down with all the neo nazi shit. Yes, they exist, yes they support Trump but the other 90% of Trump's supporters voted for him because either a) they would vote for literally anyone with an (R) next to their name or b) they wanted to "throw a brick through the window" of the political elite by re-electing all their senators and congressmen and electing a president who will fill his cabinet with whichever veteran politicians made a desperate gamble to stay relevant by supporting him early on.
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Old 11-22-2016, 11:59 AM   #1332
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Default Re: Berni for President

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobey View Post
I can't stand how this election has been and still is about moral outrage. Democrats are so focused on how everyone he is appointing is supposedly a racist and Nazis support him, but the fact that he is appointing global warming deniers and will end net neutrality, that's just boring politics stuff that nobody cares about, did you hear what Trump had to say about Hamilton?

And lets cool down with all the neo nazi shit. Yes, they exist, yes they support Trump but the other 90% of Trump's supporters voted for him because either a) they would vote for literally anyone with an (R) next to their name or b) they wanted to "throw a brick through the window" of the political elite by re-electing all their senators and congressmen and electing a president who will fill his cabinet with whichever veteran politicians made a desperate gamble to stay relevant by supporting him early on.
I don't think the issues are separate. For example, when you appoint a racist asshole to be Attorney General (Jeff Sessions, too racist to be confirmed as a judge in the 80s, but just right to run the DoJ in 2016), it follows that your Justice Department won't get involved with certain substantive issues, such as enforcing the Civil Rights Act.

Also, the issue with Bannon's buddy who coined the term alt right rallying the neo nazis over the weekend isn't that it's shocking that neo nazis support a Republican president, it's that Trump appointed Bannon, the de facto PR flack for the movement to be his #1 adviser, which goes back to my first point. MAYBE he just posted stories titled 'Bill Kristol: Republican spoiler, renegade Jew', 'Birth control makes women unattractive and crazy', and 'Hoist it high and proud: The Confederate flag proclaims a glorious heritage' in a cynical cash grab and is secretly as disgusted by the messages those stories present as I am, but I'm not feeling quite that charitable right now when it comes to giving the benefit of the doubt. It's far more likely he really is a racist, anti-Semitic, misogyinistic, homophobe.
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Old 11-22-2016, 01:04 PM   #1333
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Default Re: Berni for President

I actually do think he's aware of the harmful nature of the rhetoric, and is using it for political and monetary gain.

In my mind, that is actually worse than the alternative. I've always felt that racism stems from ignorance, but I can't think of an excuse for someone of his intelligence to knowingly propagate it for his own ends.
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Old 11-22-2016, 01:26 PM   #1334
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Default Re: Berni for President

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Originally Posted by ennuistic View Post
I actually do think he's aware of the harmful nature of the rhetoric, and is using it for political and monetary gain.

In my mind, that is actually worse than the alternative. I've always felt that racism stems from ignorance, but I can't think of an excuse for someone of his intelligence to knowingly propagate it for his own ends.
Agree, I've come to the same conclusion, and agree that it's worse, because it's one thing to be a racist but to cynically ramp up the real racists from their beer-induced slumber is really dangerous. The Klan has always been at least a little comical in its inability to actually do any of the bad shit it advocates - not saying I wish it had been more effective, but those guys are so fake tough it's hard not to laugh at them. I think the reason has been that they've been marginalized since they essentially lost the fight over civil rights, but now they can point to guys like Bannon and Sessions as examples of how you can get away with being openly bigoted.

I still think this is far less important than giving these guys the keys to the White House and empowering them to put their ideas into action, but it's not nothing, either.
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Old 11-22-2016, 01:45 PM   #1335
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Default Re: Berni for President

I'm on that conclusion too and also for Trump himself

Unfortunately, there seems to be no good way to express that sentiment without people looking at you negatively, as if you're trying to excuse that behavior.

I like to think that the scope of the conversation now is about figuring out what these people will actually do and how to stop it, but instead people are still stuck on everything is racist. And if you try to point that these guys are manipulative assholes with no boundaries or truly expressed agenda, suddenly you're normalizing them or racist yourself.

I also suspect labeling all Trump supporters as alt right and all alt right members as racist is going to have dire consequences.

Good luck in midterms when you doubled down on everybody who voted trump is a Nazi. Internet savvy Trump voters are laughing their asses off and the term racist itself is losing any effect. All this label does is help liberals circle jerk about how they're right and smart. There is no Trump voter you're winning over by calling them a Nazi, and I don't think the labeling is well justified or founded eat this time. If you want to go ham on his appointees like that, then by all means. But every voter? We all looked at the demographics right? 33% of voting hispanics are self hating racists if this is your theory. All I hear about is "#whitelash" though.

And furthermore, all Republicans aren't alt right in the first place. It's a subgroup that was accepted in an attempt to get the Republicans into the White House. Just like the tea party. Let's not forget how many Republicans personally denounced Trump before reluctantly coming back to him to help the party. But this time it worked, because democrats stayed at home instead of voting.

As an aside, is anybody else hoping that a bunch of republicans will continue to sabotage trump until midterms? It has to be the brightest remaining timeline that doesn't involve assassination.
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Old 11-22-2016, 01:59 PM   #1336
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Default Re: Berni for President

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Originally Posted by skeletalpeacock View Post
As an aside, is anybody else hoping that a bunch of republicans will continue to sabotage trump until midterms? It has to be the brightest remaining timeline that doesn't involve assassination.
It's going to be really interesting to see how the hardcore Ayn Rand types like Paul Ryan respond when Trump starts sending them spending plans that make Obama's budgets look like they came from Reagan. Maybe one bit of good that could come from this is the myth of the conservative deficit hawks will be put to rest once and for all.
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Old 11-22-2016, 02:28 PM   #1337
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Default Re: Berni for President

Politico had an interesting article about how the Dem Electoral College members are trying to get people to vote against Trump. He'd probably still get elected by a Rep Congress, but it would spur some radical electoral college change, hopefully.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/1...s-trump-231731
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Old 11-22-2016, 03:08 PM   #1338
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Default Re: Berni for President

Quote:
Originally Posted by lazarusl View Post
It's going to be really interesting to see how the hardcore Ayn Rand types like Paul Ryan respond when Trump starts sending them spending plans that make Obama's budgets look like they came from Reagan. Maybe one bit of good that could come from this is the myth of the conservative deficit hawks will be put to rest once and for all.
I had an imgur album of a bunch of Republican reactions to when he said gay marriage is settled and he's fine with it, when he took that rainbow flag and waved it around the stage at a rally, and that time he said he supports transgender bathroom rights.

Sadly, it's lost to the sands of internet time. Spoiler alert, lack of happiness on these stances corrrelates to age and whiteness plus being Ted Cruz.

Last edited by skeletalpeacock; 11-22-2016 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 11-22-2016, 11:44 PM   #1339
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Default Re: Berni for President

re:racism in the electorate.

a guest on a recent episode of keepin it 1600 had a really good point that clinton lost a lot of states - and counties - that obama won. so it's possible that trump's milkshake is bringing all the racists to the yard, but it's also possible that clinton's campaign just didn't do a good job reaching out to white rural voters (which they didn't). i think this is less a comment that rust-belters are racist, so much as rust-belters think trump's going to bring their jobs back (which he's not). it's the economy, stupid.
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Old 11-23-2016, 05:25 AM   #1340
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Default Re: Berni for President

Quote:
Originally Posted by eveninghope View Post
re:racism in the electorate.

a guest on a recent episode of keepin it 1600 had a really good point that clinton lost a lot of states - and counties - that obama won. so it's possible that trump's milkshake is bringing all the racists to the yard, but it's also possible that clinton's campaign just didn't do a good job reaching out to white rural voters (which they didn't). i think this is less a comment that rust-belters are racist, so much as rust-belters think trump's going to bring their jobs back (which he's not). it's the economy, stupid.
It's a multi-faceted issue. Some are racist, sure. Some are misogynists, sure. Some hate her for 'abandoning our troops' in Benghazi. Some think she's gonna take their guns. and on and on and on it goes.

You add it up and it's easy to see that Trump won because people are willing to overlook a lot of shitty things as long as you do one thing they really like. Trump does that for most of white rural Americans.
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