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Old 11-23-2016, 12:05 PM   #1351
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Default Re: Berni for President

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Originally Posted by Tsung View Post
While I don't disagree with all his points, the problem here is that this "softening" of extreme Republican positions has been happening for a while now, and it's been disingenuous. Like when the Supreme Court ruled on gay marriage, the hardline stance of "marriage should be between a man and a woman" softened to "I'm not saying that they shouldn't get married, I'm just saying it should be up to the states to decide." Re-positioning lgbt discrimination as religious liberty falls under this umbrella as well.

So while it's optimistic to think of Trump championing positions previously though untenable by the Republic party, I think this skirting-the-issue exchange from 60 Minutes is more representative of his position on these policies:
An absolutely fair response. I also don't completely agree with his points as well, but it's probably correct for the most part and is a well reasoned explanation of how it happened and how it is possibly to play out.

I still think the direction of things is trending down as long as he's in power and his people are in place.... but that's largely to be left unable to be changed by the people until 2018 and 2020 elections. Until then, I'm choosing to hope for the best and expect the same old same old from the GOP
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Old 11-23-2016, 12:32 PM   #1352
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Default Re: Berni for President

That guy is the embodiment of what is wrong with the American electorate.

You can't about politics while ignoring policy. They're one and the same. He's disillusioned by policy discussion, while emphasizing character qualities in individual candidates.

He doesn't care anymore, and he's okay with it.
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Old 11-23-2016, 12:37 PM   #1353
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Default Re: Berni for President

State decision is a go-to euphemism. You should read it as: we believe the Federal Government does not have the power/authority to legislate this issue. Doing so would be an overreach under the Constitution.

The entire decided by states thing has been a staple since the founding of the government and the debates between the Federalists and Jefferson and the Democratic Republicans.

It's also been on the losing side of every Civil Rights issue since slavery.
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Old 11-23-2016, 12:42 PM   #1354
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Default Re: Berni for President

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Originally Posted by ennuistic View Post
That guy is the embodiment of what is wrong with the American electorate.

You can't about politics while ignoring policy. They're one and the same. He's disillusioned by policy discussion, while emphasizing character qualities in individual candidates.

He doesn't care anymore, and he's okay with it.
That's kind of his point though... a large majority of Trump voters feel that they got their guy and that's all that matters because it's sending a message. They feel he's not going to do anything truly evil because most of his policies are in line with that they want, and they are fine with him not being the hard line right wing because most people only want him to do something about one or two actual issues they are personally involved with and who cares about the rest.

I don't take his statement as a 'this is okay' as much as 'this is why Trump voters think it's okay'

Which in turn is why you are right. This is not okay and not healthy for the future if we all just bury our heads about the overall direction our votes send this country and instead just zero in on getting the candidate that makes us feel good about our pet issues in place.
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Old 11-23-2016, 12:54 PM   #1355
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Default Re: Berni for President

Yeah I'm in the camp that feels "leave it to the states" is code for "let the shitty states be shit and let's go ahead and not fulfill our constitutional duty as the federal government to ensure the welfare of all of our people."
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Old 11-23-2016, 01:01 PM   #1356
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Default Re: Berni for President

so, realistically, if these trump voters want to believe that they got one over on the coastal elites, fine, but those jobs they think they're losing to immigration really aren't coming back no matter how large a step we take away from globalization. so, in 4 years... they vote for the other guy? that's pretty well documented in history. they reelect him because he's their guy? i imagine 4yrs is enough for the tides to turn on that. (sure, dems are saying 2018, but no on votes in midterms, obv.) like, for average joe voter who is sick of washington or whatever, what's his next move? so far trumps hasnt given any signals that he's actually going to take the white rural working class seriously, e.g. cronyism, making sales pitches from the white house, his tax plan, etc. so, sure they got their one, but what's next for those people?
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Old 11-23-2016, 01:03 PM   #1357
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Default Re: Berni for President

Voting in Trump is about as effective a message as honking your horn in a traffic jam.
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Old 11-23-2016, 01:09 PM   #1358
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Default Re: Berni for President

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Originally Posted by ennuistic View Post
Voting in Trump is about as effective a message as honking your horn in a traffic jam.
cue Seinfeld "Cat Calling" standup bit - "this is the best idea we've come up with!"
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Old 11-23-2016, 01:09 PM   #1359
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Default Re: Berni for President

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...dd3_story.html

It's pretty much a buffet for the Republicans at this point.
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Old 11-23-2016, 01:40 PM   #1360
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Default Re: Berni for President

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Originally Posted by skeletalpeacock View Post
Yeah I'm in the camp that feels "leave it to the states" is code for "let the shitty states be shit and let's go ahead and not fulfill our constitutional duty as the federal government to ensure the welfare of all of our people."
Bro, you're just in the minority for a shitty state. Imagine being on the other side and having the federal gov telling you what to do.
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