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Old 02-14-2017, 10:23 AM   #1621
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Default Re: Berni for President

i was referring to the worldview that all immigration is bad.

my understanding is that its like, northern european culture seems to be the most economically viable so let's not dilute it with darkies. which can make sense, but this ignores a lot of reality, like statistics on job creation. we can even ignore the appeals to empathy and human rights for the sake of having this conversation with people who don't seem to buy into that. there are just a lot of statistical benefits to globaization.

but ummm, sure we can talk about islam.....

yeah, the anti-islam stuff is born from ignorance and selective judgement calls. like, this bacha bazi thing is an afghan thing and not an islam as a whole thing. a lot of those inhumane aspects of certain islamic cultures have mirrors in western christian cultures too. e.g. child brides, oppression of women (also), etc.

its funny you mention veterans because in my experiences, the veterans ive met are more understanding of the ME than most americans. possibly because they were older when they came here.
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Old 02-14-2017, 10:45 AM   #1622
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Default Re: Berni for President

A modern discussion geared toward change on these issues has to address them all at once, as they are almost indistinguishable from each other to the people who need it the most.

On Hispanic immigration specifically, pretty sure everybody is always going to be all talk. I think it was Georgia where they successfully banned migrant workers and the wages required to pay an American citizen weren't there, so the harvest all rotted on the vine.

The construction and restaurant industries in particular are built on underpaying Hispanic immigrants. Social security fraud is widely used and tolerated by my everyone on up from immigrant to federal government when ID is required. Pretty easy to find sources on that for the doubters. Or you could have just worked in a restaurant and asked around. Anthony bourdain had a big rant on how the restaurant industry would die without this kind of labor a few years back.

In short, nobody in the position to change this will ever do it if they really look into it because it financially ruin us.

On refugee immigration, what I already posted is still fully applicable. If you believed those things fully represented a culture and didn't have the resources to know better, you'd fight that practice.
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:08 AM   #1623
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Default Re: Berni for President

Quote:
Originally Posted by skeletalpeacock View Post

On refugee immigration, what I already posted is still fully applicable. If you believed those things fully represented a culture and didn't have the resources to know better, you'd fight that practice.
That's the thing - anyone who is (a) rational, and (b) able to access objective information, knows that the Trump/Bannon worldview is false. They don't come at this from a rational, knowledgeable place. From a strategic perspective, it's just classic scapegoating, which is why the Nazi comparisons are so apt. Focus the public's anger on *the others* and then you can use that anger for your gain.

Whether Trump or Bannon truly hold these beliefs is largely irrelevant at this point - it only becomes relevant when/if they go from a deportation policy to a concentration camp policy.

Quote:
Pretty much Islam is known for suppressing women, honor killings, terrorism, nd even worse shit like this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi .
Yeah, and Christianity is known for the crusades and the OKC bombing, and Judaism is known for an eye for an eye and Palestinian resettlement. It's not the religious tenets that matter, it's the human capacity to commit evil acts that crosses over into all cultures and faiths.
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:20 AM   #1624
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Default Re: Berni for President

Absolutely to all of that. I only point out the negatives of the mental mish-mash of views on the Middle East held by too many because it explains their position, not because it's valid.

We have people who lost all trust for the MSM. And a lot of that definitely falls on the MSM itself, but that's another post.

So fine. A larger group of people don't trust the media. This has happened before. The solution is a strong leader who knows how to talk to people without talking down to them. We don't have that anywhere in the administration that I can see. So I expect years more of this.

As you point out, we have people capitalizing on it for agendas that range from corrupt to evil. Im not sure what to do about it besides vote in the mids.
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:22 AM   #1625
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Default Re: Berni for President

Side note, some minor details on the trump hooker piss dossier have been verified by my conspiracy forums.

That would be the greatest impeachment of all time, wouldn't it?
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:31 AM   #1626
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Default Re: Berni for President

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Originally Posted by skeletalpeacock View Post
Side note, some minor details on the trump hooker piss dossier have been verified by my conspiracy forums.

That would be the greatest impeachment of all time, wouldn't it?
The details of pissgate were never the real issue, right? It was the WH slamming CNN for reporting that there even was a dossier and that Trump and Obama were made aware of it, but only once Buzzfeed started disclosing the unverified contents of the dossier did that take over as the main story. And if the contents aren't true, then the dossier must not have existed, and spin, and spin, and spin.

Just look at how they're handling this whole Flynn thing. Yeah, the real issue here is where the leaks are coming from.
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:36 AM   #1627
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Default Re: Berni for President

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Originally Posted by Tsung View Post
The details of pissgate were never the real issue, right? It was the WH slamming CNN for reporting that there even was a dossier and that Trump and Obama were made aware of it, but only once Buzzfeed started disclosing the unverified contents of the dossier did that take over as the main story. And if the contents aren't true, then the dossier must not have existed, and spin, and spin, and spin.

Just look at how they're handling this whole Flynn thing. Yeah, the real issue here is where the leaks are coming from.
I suppose so but the media these days gets slammed for anything anti-trump by the White House. Though I think the dossier dropped during the obama admin tail end?

Massive lol@Flynn

Even pro trump subreddits don't have a zinger for the occasion

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Old 02-14-2017, 12:09 PM   #1628
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Default Re: Berni for President

I've read that it's believed that while the dossier is thought to be substantively accurate, there are some false details planted to give the Russians the ability to discredit it, which is probably why the major media outlets never reported on it when they first got their hands on it.
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Old 02-14-2017, 12:17 PM   #1629
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Default Re: Berni for President

Redditor nails why democrats lost

https://np.reddit.com/r/politics/com...trump/ddp45uf/

Worst part is nothing has changed
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Old 02-14-2017, 01:35 PM   #1630
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Default Re: Berni for President

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Originally Posted by skeletalpeacock View Post
Redditor nails why democrats lost

https://np.reddit.com/r/politics/com...trump/ddp45uf/

Worst part is nothing has changed
Point 1 & 2: people are stupid if they think traditional rust belt jobs are ever coming back. Also, people are stupid in general.

Point 3: Hillary was condescending for not taking Trump seriously? If she had taken him seriously, she'd be criticized for elevating the idiot to respectability. This argument is really just another way of saying that woman wasn't respectful enough to the man she was standing next to in the debates.

Point 4 (Hillary's scandals): If people really cared about the scandals, they wouldn't have voted for the guy who bragged about sexually assaulting women. The Hillary scandal trope is just a pretext for not wanting to vote for an uppity woman.

Point 5 (Alt-left?): Some say Obama and Hillary are too liberal, some say they're too conservative, some say they're too moderate. See points 3 and 4; just a pretext for "they aren't white dudes".

Point 6 isn't even a point - not sure what the author is saying here. Backlash against the liberal media? Whatever, that's just a Limbaughian claim from the 90s that gets dusted off when convenient.

The more I read and speak with people, the more I'm convinced that people voted against Hillary because they don't like the idea of a woman in office, especially one who isn't interested in playing the Sarah Palin/Nikki Haley role of someone who wears bright lipstick and says feminism is bad, and/or they voted for Trump because they don't like brown people. Any other explanation is really just a corollary to those two reasons (i.e., I'm mad because I lost my job (but it's the brown people's fault, not mine for failing to get an education fit for the 21st century)).
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