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Old 04-25-2016, 02:38 PM   #661
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Default Re: Premier Play Changes

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Originally Posted by JonasDash View Post
Casual players haven't moved on, but how much of that is because they hope to get good enough to one day play in PTQ's, GP's, PT's etc.? Maybe not much, but some.

And to be fair I should say that Magic in and of itself may not die, but my interest in the game, the whole reason I enjoy the game - competitive tournament play, will die off if this sort of corporate mindset continues.

More than anything though, I just find it distasteful for a company to pull the rug out on people like this. It's just not good business to treat people like that, even if they aren't the lions share of your profits.
Honestly I think people have realistic expectations from the game. Even though grinding will tell you they have 0.001% chance of becoming a platinum pro, which is what this is about. They want to make that 1 PT to say they've been. I believe this is the dream and expectation of the vast majority of the competitive players. I could be wrong obv.

My initial reaction was "they got boned pretty hard, but it doesn't affect me at all." I'm probably better than 95% of the grinders without putting any time into qualifying.

PPTQ and RPTQ changes did affect me, and I'm playing less as a result.
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Old 04-25-2016, 02:43 PM   #662
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Default Re: Premier Play Changes

i guess the noble notion of richard garfield and skaff elias of creating a "mind sport" no longer part of the companies vision. theres a way to balance it with marketing and everything else, but it looks like they've stopped trying. this bums me out.

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Old 04-25-2016, 02:45 PM   #663
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Default Re: Premier Play Changes

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Originally Posted by grimlock View Post
If they just bought like 400 or so laptops at $500 (pretty decent laptop definitely MTGO capable) at $200k then they have guaranteed MTGO for every single PT. They can also *gasp* make an MTGO account specific to your DCI that gives you access to all legal cards for that tourney.

I think the problem here is you take a significant element of skill out of the game (remembering triggers/board states/etc that MTGO does for you) and you also add a new element of strategy (burning your opponents clock). You also take away the effectiveness of certain decks (like combo decks that take a milly clicks to win). Probably a win overall tho.
If you play an infinite combo deck you don't deserve to play. Even with Twin you can make 20ish guys and attack with plenty of time to spare.

Clock is not a big problem. You can train yourself to play fast if you're going to be playing that kind of deck. Watch some of the Japanese players play Esper control and they blitz through their turns and play very quickly during their opponent's turns.

You can't really burn through your opponent's clock. F6 makes it easier on the opponent, but clicking each time only lengthen the game realistically by a minute if that. If they're down to 2 minutes and have to resolve a lot of triggers it's their damn fault.

And you save a shit ton of time because there's no shuffling, and people must sideboard within 3 minutes.
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Old 04-25-2016, 02:49 PM   #664
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Default Re: Premier Play Changes

There's an interesting idea that sperling hinted at but others are asking more directly-

Since they suddenly halted and changed benefit payments mid-year, and during a huge event, and at a horrific time in that event, was legal involved in the issue?

There is a lawsuit right now involving judges claiming that they are employees of wotc who were not paid fairly

That's where the sudden kick from legal could have arisen
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Old 04-25-2016, 02:51 PM   #665
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Default Re: Premier Play Changes

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Originally Posted by binger View Post
Honestly I think people have realistic expectations from the game. Even though grinding will tell you they have 0.001% chance of becoming a platinum pro, which is what this is about. They want to make that 1 PT to say they've been. I believe this is the dream and expectation of the vast majority of the competitive players. I could be wrong obv.

My initial reaction was "they got boned pretty hard, but it doesn't affect me at all." I'm probably better than 95% of the grinders without putting any time into qualifying.

PPTQ and RPTQ changes did affect me, and I'm playing less as a result.
Isn't this change just more of the same though? A part of an ongoing systemic failure on WotC's part when it comes to the competitive mtg player? First it was removal of the Masters event, the invitational, the removal of States/Regionals/Nationals, the changes to PTQ system, the multitude of flubs in planeswalker points, the multiple failed attempts at reworking the gold/silver/platinum levels, byes, etc, the failure to improve and update MODO, and now the slashing of appearance fees.... it's just more of the same and this might finally be the straw that breaks the camels back when it comes to competitive professional magic.
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Old 04-25-2016, 02:56 PM   #666
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Default Re: Premier Play Changes

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Originally Posted by skeletalpeacock View Post
There's an interesting idea that sperling hinted at but others are asking more directly-

Since they suddenly halted and changed benefit payments mid-year, and during a huge event, and at a horrific time in that event, was legal involved in the issue?

There is a lawsuit right now involving judges claiming that they are employees of wotc who were not paid fairly

That's where the sudden kick from legal could have arisen
That's what I was alluding to with "judge costs"
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Old 04-25-2016, 02:57 PM   #667
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Default Re: Premier Play Changes

another interesting lawsuit regarding this was just resolved with Uber and their drivers 'independant contract' status. while the two are not the same, they could be related and might have had bearing on the decision to head this off now before it could become an issue
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Old 04-25-2016, 03:06 PM   #668
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Default Re: Premier Play Changes

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Originally Posted by JonasDash View Post
Isn't this change just more of the same though? A part of an ongoing systemic failure on WotC's part when it comes to the competitive mtg player? First it was removal of the Masters event, the invitational, the removal of States/Regionals/Nationals, the changes to PTQ system, the multitude of flubs in planeswalker points, the multiple failed attempts at reworking the gold/silver/platinum levels, byes, etc, the failure to improve and update MODO, and now the slashing of appearance fees.... it's just more of the same and this might finally be the straw that breaks the camels back when it comes to competitive professional magic.
I mostly agree with you, but do you know how many mtgsalvation mongo's think that Todd Anderson is better than Lee Shi Tian or Fabrizio Anteri because they don't seem them play every week and/or they think the SCG series actually means something
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Old 04-25-2016, 03:07 PM   #669
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Red face Re: Premier Play Changes

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I mostly agree with you, but do you know how many mtgsalvation mongo's think that Todd Anderson is better than Lee Shi Tian or Fabrizio Anteri because they don't seem them play every week and/or they think the SCG series actually means something
Didn't it take Gerry Thompson like 3 years after winning the biggest SCG thing to make a dent in a pro tour?

Also Jeff hoogland is the best player ever man!
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Old 04-25-2016, 03:08 PM   #670
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Default Re: Premier Play Changes

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Originally Posted by JonasDash View Post
Isn't this change just more of the same though? A part of an ongoing systemic failure on WotC's part when it comes to the competitive mtg player? First it was removal of the Masters event, the invitational, the removal of States/Regionals/Nationals, the changes to PTQ system, the multitude of flubs in planeswalker points, the multiple failed attempts at reworking the gold/silver/platinum levels, byes, etc, the failure to improve and update MODO, and now the slashing of appearance fees.... it's just more of the same and this might finally be the straw that breaks the camels back when it comes to competitive professional magic.
Just because I don't like it doesn't mean it's not the correct move for WotC. East coast PTQs were drawing 200+300s. Same for other hotspots like Tokyo and California. Spiking one of those tournaments is hard as hell.

Introducing a pptq system provides more competitive level tournaments on a regular basis for the grinders within their city. It reduced traveling. These poops traveling for pptqs confuse the fuck out of me. I understand the switch from a logistic perspective.

Modo, I think is their only big obvious fuck up. All the other stuff listed had good intentions or at least a purpose behind it. None of it affected their sales that much.

I think WotC know what they're doing. The market might be saturated where WotC's actions won't affect the bottom line by that much.

This whole straw that broke the camel's back needs to stop too. If you're adding straws to a camel's back it's going to slow down. When the final one hits the camel will collapse. All sales record indicate the camel is speeding up. Until it starts slowing down, there's really no straw on camel's back argument.
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